Whistle Blower my BUTT........this is treason........PURE and SIMPLE

[pontooner]

Originally Posted by MrSplitshot

Powder Keg topic here...and I probably should read more of the documents before commenting, BUT...some random thoughts...

First let me say that I support our troops completely and have the utmost respect for their sacrifices. Even though nothing would make me happier than seeing every last Taliban member, insurgent, and radical Islamic militant jihadist go down in a blaze of gunfire at the hands of our soliders...I don't know that I'm in favor of continuing to do what we have been doing. Are we making progress towards the goal? By the way, what's the goal? Kill all terrorists? Keep them fighting over there so they can't rally and come fight us over here? Get Bin Laden? Fire up a Democratic Afghanistan that can support itself, then get out? It's okay to ask the questions. Is it setup to fail? I understand that's pretty much what the wiki-leaks deal has tried to expose. I haven't read but a couple of the documents, and I'm sure there are some in there that will put our soldiers in harm. This will be spun, especially by those opposing the war, to cast a negative shadow over the US Military and will only serve as fuel for those who already hate us and don't agree with what we are doing. For those reasons, I think the wiki-leaks information was irresponsible. This cat has received a ton of international attention to his website, which is exactly what he wants.

However, maybe playing Devil's Advocate, I sit here and realize that whomever supplied him the information had everything to lose and nothing to gain. That tells me that maybe they felt extremely passionate about "wrongs" being done that cost lives....so much that he/she was willing to risk their life to expose it. I think it's easy for us to say that the person should be executed, but whether you are military or civilian, right is right and wrong is wrong. I've always gathered that questioning the righteousness of authority within the military culture isn't exactly welcomed with open arms. Maybe this person felt so strong in their convictions that they knew the only way it would ever be exposed was to leak it...with the repercussion being massive against them if their identity discovered. Whether you agree or not, it may sound weird...but I kinda admire the passion, if that turns out to be their intent. While we can say "This guy has put our troops in harm with these leaks and should be tried/executed", maybe he/she could make the same argument that the mismanagement of our forces and the situations that they have been put in have put even more in harms way from the start. Again, they have basically risked their life here trying to expose it...if their intentions were sincere. Maybe they felt it was the only way that the wrongs would get exposed, and stopped, thus actually saving American lives in the long run. Maybe they felt the situation in Afghanistan was that dire and feared for the men and women that will continue to loose their lives if they don't get what they need to WIN. (Disclaimer: If it comes to pass that they leaked the info in exchange for a bunch of cash or something, then piss on em.) All I'm saying is that we should get the facts on why this person leaked what they did.

That said, I believe it has been said numerous times that War is Hell. Stuff is going to happen...stuff that's not pretty...and I believe that unless you have been over there holding a rifle, taking fire from insurgents, praying that every approaching car isn't loaded with explosives, and trying to determine which one is your friend and which one is your enemy...(Guess what? They all look the same.)...then who are we to really judge the actions that our soldiers take right now? Sure, they make mistakes and do some boneheaded stuff just like any other...just because they are soldiers doesn't mean they are perfect...but in my humble opinion, they've earned a little slack within reason. They're at war. They're not out for an evening stroll. That doesn't excuse the particularly heinous war crimes, if you will, but I think it gives them a little leeway on other things.

For example: If guys who jump the gun and mistakenly kill some friendly civilians in a combat environment should receive a little slack due to the situational stress, then should a higher ranking officer also receive a little slack for leaking documents if their intent is to expose what they passionately feel are wrongs being done to their men and women on the battlefield?

Have to agree that if the guy who leaked the info felt the way you described then it does shed a different light on things.

Lets hope he's not just wanting some attention or being vindictive for some reason.

[Catfish Bob]

Originally Posted by GeoFisher

Personally, you sound like a follower of Korish, or one of those WHACK JOB Freeman.........

Views are Views, and you're entitled to them though.

I have no doubt there is corruption in the works, and I agree with a few of your ideas, but NOT on OK, 911 and cops......the rest, well WE AGREE

Personally Cops are not the problem, but COP UNIONS are the scourge of the EARTH.....

Later,

Geo

Geo I don't where you live but around here its ridiculous. I been pulled over at least 4 times this year for no reason. They pull ya over and make ya sit there forever too. I work early as heck. Some days as early as 3 am. They pull me over and want to know what I'm doing out at this time, and want me to allow them to search my vehicle etc,,,its a joke and it makes my blood boil when I'm late to work cause some cop thought I was out too late at night. I drive a plain white 04 chevy pickup, so its not like I should look specious. Maybe its their higher ups that are pressuring them to get out there and find reasons to arrest people to make money for the city.

One of these days their really going to P me off. An I'll probably go ape on um, get tazered an have a heart attack an die. Last time I got pulled over at 4am on way to work the cop gave me so much crap,,,,question after question of what I'm doing out at 4am and "what kind of people have to be at work at 4am, that is dumb." Exactly what the uneducated, obese pig said to me as he was on the clock at 4am himself.

I know my views are a bit off the wall to some. This is only place to talk about politics I really know of...Not allowed at work, an my friends/family could really care less. Their too worried about the unimportant issues like sports, celebrities, tv,, etc.... So thanks for not giving me a hard time. Just a young guy trying to figger out how this messed up world works.

[RoadToad]

I have yet to be able to get the website to load. I'm sure it's just getting overwhelmed with traffic since this came out.

I'm not buying the whole "whistle-blower" thing, either. If the guy had leaked documents about a specific event or events, and was trying to show how some terrible war crime had been committed, maybe. But it seems to me what that he did was just download everything he could, and send it over to Wikileaks. And they're not calling it evidence of this or that crime, they're just saying, "Hey, here's a bunch of documents some a-hole sent us. Have at them!" So to me what this Pfc Manning has done is basically vandalism, except in this case it was vandalism against our national security, and he deserves some serious jail time for that. And Wikileaks isn't some virtuous outlet where people can reveal hidden truths. They're just your garden-variety anarchists, willing to publish anything that any government wants to keep secret, just because they can.

Maybe the best thing that will come of all this will be a review of security practices. This may be just an indicator of how little I know about our military, but to me it seems odd that someone with the rank of Private First Class would have access to so much classified information.

[RoadToad]

How weird is this? Now the Wikileaks guy has been accused of rape, then the charges withdrawn, all in the space of about 24 hours. Now I'm wondering if the accusation was someone who hates what he did, and is trying to get him any way they can, or was it perhaps engineered by his supporters, trying to make him look like a victim?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/08/21/sweden.wikileaks.charge/index.html

BTW I found a link to this same story, about the charges being dropped, on Fox's site, but for some reason even though it was labeled "authorities drop charges..." it led me to the original story of them being brought. Not sure why that is... Maybe I had it cached or something.

[GeoFisher]

Originally Posted by RoadToad

How weird is this? Now the Wikileaks guy has been accused of rape, then the charges withdrawn, all in the space of about 24 hours. Now I'm wondering if the accusation was someone who hates what he did, and is trying to get him any way they can, or was it perhaps engineered by his supporters, trying to make him look like a victim?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/08/21/sweden.wikileaks.charge/index.html

BTW I found a link to this same story, about the charges being dropped, on Fox's site, but for some reason even though it was labeled "authorities drop charges..." it led me to the original story of them being brought. Not sure why that is... Maybe I had it cached or something.

I think this is all about locating him.......And once he's located, there MAY be some charges coming his way.......or maybe even more.

As the owner of WIKILEAKS, he's also responsible for the TREASON........

When we're fighting a war, anyone who helps our enemy is a threat to us........It wouldn't surprise me a bit if we took his butt out........

Later,

Geo

[RoadToad]

I'd love to see charges brought against him too, but what charges? He's not an American citizen; hasn't even spent much time here, so treason isn't an option. And since he wasn't in America when he did it, I don't know how much legal authority the US has to prosecute him. Unless there's some law in Sweden prohibiting the publishing of American classified material, which I kinda doubt, he's pretty much untouchable from a legal point of view. But yeah, if he goes to the wrong place, he might just suddenly vanish...